Mahāsakuludāyisutta

mn77:6.1 “Sir, leave aside what we were sitting talking about just now.

mn77:6.2 It won’t be hard for you to hear about that later.

mn77:6.3 Sir, a few days ago several ascetics and brahmins who follow various other religions were sitting together at the debating hall, and this discussion came up among them:

mn77:6.4 ‘The people of Aṅga and Magadha are so fortunate, so very fortunate!

mn77:6.5 For there are these ascetics and brahmins who lead an order and a community, and tutor a community. They’re well-known and famous religious founders, deemed holy by many people. And they have come down for the rainy season residence at Rājagaha.

mn77:6.6 They include Pūraṇa Kassapa,

mn77:6.8 the bamboo-staffed ascetic Gosāla,

mn77:6.9 Ajita of the hair blanket,

mn77:6.10 Pakudha Kaccāyana,

mn77:6.11 Sañjaya Belaṭṭhiputta,

mn77:6.12 and the Jain ascetic of the Ñātika clan.

mn77:6.14 This ascetic Gotama also leads an order and a community, and tutors a community. He’s a well-known and famous religious founder, deemed holy by many people.

mn77:6.15 And he too has come down for the rains residence at Rājagaha.

mn77:6.16 Which of these ascetics and brahmins is honored, respected, revered, and venerated by their disciples? And how do their disciples, honoring and respecting them, remain loyal?’

mn77:6.17 Some of them said:

mn77:6.18 ‘This Pūraṇa Kassapa leads an order and a community, and tutors a community. He’s a well-known and famous religious founder, deemed holy by many people.

mn77:6.19 But he’s not honored, respected, revered, and venerated by his disciples. And his disciples, not honoring and respecting him, don’t remain loyal to him.

mn77:6.20 Once it so happened that he was teaching an assembly of many hundreds.

mn77:6.21 Then one of his disciples made a noise,

mn77:6.22 “My good fellows, don’t ask Pūraṇa Kassapa about that.

mn77:6.23 He doesn’t know that.

mn77:6.24 I know it. Ask me about it,

mn77:6.25 and I’ll answer you.”

mn77:6.26 Once it so happened that Pūraṇa Kassapa didn’t get his way, though he called out with raised arms,

mn77:6.27 “Be quiet, good fellows, don’t make a sound.

mn77:6.28 They’re not asking you, they’re asking me!

mn77:6.29 I’ll answer you!”

mn77:6.30 Indeed, many of his disciples have left him after refuting his doctrine:

mn77:6.31 “You don’t understand this teaching and training. I understand this teaching and training. What, you understand this teaching and training? You’re practicing wrong. I’m practicing right. I stay on topic, you don’t. You said last what you should have said first. You said first what you should have said last. What you’ve thought so much about has been disproved. Your doctrine is refuted. Go on, save your doctrine! You’re trapped; get yourself out of this—if you can!”

mn77:6.32 That’s how Pūraṇa Kassapa is not honored, respected, revered, venerated, and esteemed by his disciples. On the contrary, his disciples, not honoring and respecting him, don’t remain loyal to him.

mn77:6.33 Rather, he’s reviled, and rightly so.’

mn77:6.34 Others said:

mn77:6.35 ‘This bamboo-staffed ascetic Gosāla …

mn77:6.36 Ajita of the hair blanket …

mn77:6.37 Pakudha Kaccāyana …

mn77:6.38 Sañjaya Belaṭṭhiputta …

mn77:6.39 This Jain ascetic of the Ñātika clan leads an order and a community, and tutors a community. He’s a well-known and famous religious founder, deemed holy by many people.

mn77:6.40 But he’s not honored, respected, revered, and venerated by his disciples. And his disciples, not honoring and respecting him, don’t remain loyal to him.

mn77:6.41 Once it so happened that he was teaching an assembly of many hundreds.

mn77:6.42 Then one of his disciples made a noise,

mn77:6.43 “My good fellows, don’t ask the Jain Ñātika about that.

mn77:6.44 He doesn’t know that.

mn77:6.45 I know it. Ask me about it,

mn77:6.46 and I’ll answer you.”

mn77:6.47 Once it so happened that the Jain Ñātika didn’t get his way, though he called out with raised arms,

mn77:6.48 “Be quiet, good fellows, don’t make a sound.

mn77:6.49 They’re not asking you, they’re asking me!

mn77:6.50 I’ll answer you!”

mn77:6.51 Indeed, many of his disciples have left him after refuting his doctrine:

mn77:6.52 “You don’t understand this teaching and training. I understand this teaching and training. What, you understand this teaching and training? You’re practicing wrong. I’m practicing right. I stay on topic, you don’t. You said last what you should have said first. You said first what you should have said last. What you’ve thought so much about has been disproved. Your doctrine is refuted. Go on, save your doctrine! You’re trapped; get yourself out of this—if you can!”

mn77:6.53 That’s how the Jain Ñātika is not honored, respected, revered, and venerated by his disciples. On the contrary, his disciples, not honoring and respecting him, don’t remain loyal to him.

mn77:6.54 Rather, he’s reviled, and rightly so.’

mn77:6.55 Others said:

mn77:6.56 ‘This ascetic Gotama leads an order and a community, and tutors a community. He’s a well-known and famous religious founder, deemed holy by many people.

mn77:6.57 He’s honored, respected, revered, and venerated by his disciples. And his disciples, honoring and respecting him, remain loyal to him.

mn77:6.58 Once it so happened that he was teaching an assembly of many hundreds.

mn77:6.59 Then one of his disciples cleared their throat.

mn77:6.60 And one of their spiritual companions nudged them with their knee, to indicate,

mn77:6.61 “Hush, venerable, don’t make sound! Our teacher, the Blessed One, is teaching!”

mn77:6.62 While the ascetic Gotama is teaching an assembly of many hundreds, there is no sound of his disciples coughing or clearing their throats.

mn77:6.63 That large crowd is poised expectantly at the ready, thinking,

mn77:6.64 “Whatever the Buddha teaches, we shall listen to it.”

mn77:6.65 It’s like when there’s a person at the crossroads pressing out pure dwarf-bee honey,

mn77:6.66 and a large crowd is poised expectantly at the ready.

mn77:6.67 In the same way, while the ascetic Gotama is teaching an assembly of many hundreds, there is no sound of his disciples coughing or clearing their throats.

mn77:6.68 That large crowd is poised expectantly at the ready, thinking,

mn77:6.69 “Whatever the Buddha teaches, we shall listen to it.”

mn77:6.70 Even when disciples of the ascetic Gotama, having clashed with their spiritual companions, resign the training and return to a lesser life, they speak only praise of the Teacher, the teaching, and the Saṅgha. They blame only themselves, not others: “We were unlucky, we had little merit. For even after going forth in such a well explained teaching and training we weren’t able to practice for life the perfectly full and pure spiritual life.”

mn77:6.71 They become monastery workers or lay followers, and they proceed having undertaken the five precepts.

mn77:6.72 That’s how the ascetic Gotama is honored, respected, revered, and venerated by his disciples. And that’s how his disciples, honoring and respecting him, remain loyal to him.’”